I will open with this – “I LOVE GOD. Thank God for the blessings that I have in my life, and I accept these blessings as a humble and faithful man of the Lord.”
Religion was something that I really struggled with when I was going through the “coming out” process. Since I can remember, I have (by my own choice) regarded church as a safe and welcoming place where I could connect and learn about God and the teachings of Jesus Christ. I looked forward to church because it made me feel like I could learn from the smartest and “most perfect being” that breathed life into man many many years ago. Basically, I knew I loved God and that I wanted to use the teachings of The Bible to become a better person. The main teachings of Jesus (humility, respect, community, charity, love, kindness, sacrifice, honesty) are similar to the main teachings of other major world religions. Whether you pray to an elephant, Buddha or Jesus on a Cross, the point is that the Supreme Being that created mankind does not want his creation to destroy, defame, or discriminate against each other. I believe that God is the one, the Way the Truth and the Light… if you believe in something different, I respect that. The moment that ANY religion becomes a problem is when people use it as a tool for segregation, discrimination, and hatred.
Religion has been used throughout the centuries to justify murder, slavery, the oppression of women, the destroying of art and architecture, the annihilation of entire cultures, etc. Now why am I saying this as a Christian? I can admit to these atrocities because I believe that they were the works of MAN, not of GOD. I DO love God, and my relationship with Him is of such a great importance in my life; however, I can’t ignore what my religion has done in the past, and neither should other Christians. To evolve, we must learn from our mistakes.
Look at 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ” (34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. (35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” Does that literally mean that NO woman should ever speak in a church? I don’t think so…but someone could USE that verse to make it law. I’m not sure about you, but church wouldn’t be the same for me if my mother couldn’t speak as she sat beside me. How would she ask me to “please pass The Bible?”
“The South” used the name of God to condone slavery and the oppression of minorities in the U.S., namely the African American population. Many in the KKK thought it was their “God-given mission” to oppress minority groups. Men have used religion as a reason to subjugate women and treat them as the “property” of their husbands – denying them voting rights and other civil rights until someone stood up and changed it. Now I see a parallel with these groups and the LGBT population. As mentioned in the “LGBT Politics in America” section, this group is denied the right to marry, the right to serve openly in the military while they’re risking their lives for our freedom, and in many cases the right to work at a profession and have a picture of their (same-sex) loved one on a desk for fear of being fired on the spot. The LGBT community is denied many rights in this country, and some of the largest machines for maintaining these bias laws are churches and religious groups. Now I’m not talking about the (in my opinion) crazy Westboro Baptist Church who think that God “hates” everything in the world aside from them. I’m referencing the churches that talk about the “terrible homosexual nature.”
My advice to a member of the LGBT community: You are not created accidentally, nor are you random. God created you with a purpose and I believe that the true sin is to think that the creation that God made (you) is not good enough to show to the world. I can’t stand it when people suggest “reparative therapy” or that you can “pray it away.” They are essentially saying that you should USE God to change what God made you to be. Not sure how that works…It seems a bit hypocritical to me – kinda like how people will pick out Leviticus, Exodus, Romans, and other verses in certain books to use as weapons to sting the ears and hearts of the LGBT community. The funny thing is that they ignore many other verses, like those dealing with the following: selling children into slavery, sacrificing animals, wearing cloth and linen at the same time, eating shellfish, working on the Sabbath, stoning adulterers, raping children, and more. Furthermore, the verses dealing with homosexuality that they pick out don’t address “loving and committed” relationships, but promiscuity – something looked down upon for heterosexual couples also. The Bible was written +-2000 years ago. We need to take the Bible as Word under the context it was written. There isn’t slavery anymore, we don’t sacrifice animals, and people should not use a handful of verses to make others feel like anything less than amazing creations of God. Here are a few more verses for those that like this method… (Oh and for the verses out of 1Samuel, it’s funny that their relationship is one of the most vividly described in The Bible, and very few heterosexual relationships in The Bible are mentioned more.)
“By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me hath not been in vain…”
1Corinthians 15:10 (My favorite Bible verse.)
“Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”
Exodus 20:16
“After David had finished talking with Saul, Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself. 2 From that day Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father’s house. 3 And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. 4 Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt.”
1 Samuel 18:1-4
“When the lad was gone, David rose from the south side and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed three times to Jonathan. And they kissed each other and wept together, but David wept the more.”
1 Samuel 20:41
”How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women!”
2 Samuel 1:26
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.”
Matthew 7:1
“When they persisted in questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let the person among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’”
John 8:7
My point is, religion (specifically Christianity for me) should be used as a means for the human race to better live in harmony, as a source of love and acceptance – not of hatred. You may not agree with the actions of homosexuals, but DO NOT use God as an excuse to spread your disdain and bigotry. As one who would like to evangelize and spread the loving word of God to people, it makes it very difficult to talk to LGBT people about God when all that they have experienced are slamming doors and hurtful words from “Christians.”
Here’s a great movie to watch about Homosexuality and Christianity. It helped me immensely!
“For the Bible Tells Me So”
*Fun Fact: During the Season of The Real World DC, this was the only movie that all of the roommates at that time(myself included) watched together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBR0dq0XXk
Hey Mike,
I just wanted to say thank you for what u wrote..It’s so true..People use the bible to discriminate homosexuality like they did a long time ago with women.
I’m bi,more into men, not out and I love God. I know he created us the way we are and He loves us no matter what people say.
When I saw u going at church in the real world..I was like, yes, another bi who love God and go to church like me. I was so happy because I wasn’t alone.
God bless u and Tanner(great couple), u have changed something in my life and now I’m more proud of myself, and I will soon say that I’m proud to be christian and bi, and that God is my light..because of you Mike
Love u man, Kev, 18, from Canada
Hi Mike..so glad you protested the Westboro Baptist Church protest. It is absolutely mind boggling and against any kind of logic that these people can call themselves Christians. I can never forget them picketing the funeral of Mathew Shepard in Wyoming, holding up signs so his parents could read as they came out of church following the casket: “Mathew’s in hell now” the signs read. When they say these things, they are attacking God’s plan. Anyone who is gay, bi, straight KNOWS that this is our genetic makeup. Period. You express these things so well and that’s why you will be a strong voice for a long time in the struggle for equality and fairness. I live by the motto that everyone has the same right to be happy. Christianity is not straight or gay. It is love of God and all of His creation. Glad the site is up and running. Lots of love.
Heyy Mike, you may recognize me from Facebook. I just wanted to let you know that you are my inspiration and although I have found it difficult to commit to any particular branch of Christianity, you make trying worth it. Like I told your boyfriend a few days ago over Facebook (Not sure if he read, or ignored my message, You should tell him too!), I have made a promise to myself that I will one day go to Colorado and do everything in my power to shake your hand, because you have made one of the biggest differences in my life.
This almost made me cry…
Have you checked out that documentary on LOGO called “Search U” about the college students that went on a “Freedom Ride” for our LGBT rights?? You should google it and check it out!!! ALWAYS BE YOURSELF Justin, God loves us just the way we are!!!
with love,
Bella
http://www.herjuicebox.com
Proud Lesbian Community
Mike I just wanted to say FINALLY someone acknowledges the fact that some Christians, heck a whole lot of Christians, will ignore things in the Bible that would end up discriminating them like eating shellfish, working on the Sabbath, etc.
I’m bisexual and at one point I was losing my faith, because once someone would bring up the whole leviticus 18:22 thing I’d feel a little defeated because I didn’t know how to respond, but I think you just put the spark right back in me. Thanks Mike, by posting a logical explanation on religion you’ve helped me in more ways than you even know.
Hey Mike!
I, too, am a Christian, and personally I am against homosexuality. I’ll be open with that first. But, I do not hate or act anyway different to people that are a LGBT. God calls upon us to love one another, and it is not our duty to judge one another. I’m happy that you are Christian and can be open with others about yourself. God bless, and continue to let Him show you the way.
-Brian
Brian,
Thank you for speaking out about your view on this. It gives us hope when we hear people that do not approve of us say “I don’t hate you for it either”. We never asked the world to accept it and understand it… we just want to be accepted as people and not have rights taken away from us such as marriage and love and equality.
Again, thank you for your words.
God Bless,
Bella
http://www.herjuicebox.com
Proud Lesbian Community
Thanks Mike for everything you do and stand for. I am going thru alot right now and needed to read this.
Just wanted to contribute an added dimention to what folk believe the Bible is. (The Bible would imply in one dimention; that: Jesus existed even in the begining, is the Word (Bible), and is the same yesterday, today and forever ). Oh, and He is not Hate but Love.
In the beginning was the “Word”, and the Word was with God, and the “Word” was God (John 1:1)
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (John 1:4)
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. (John 1:10)
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (John 1:11)
And the “Word” was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
Hi Mike,
I know that you probably get like every little junk mail and such but I am a person from the Midwest that is actually struggling with all this between the Christianity and Homosexuality. I know that you are not a full time pastor/seminary student but neither are the others that are telling me that I need to drop this whole act. I have really never got a chance to come out……I was forced out in my hometown and I am still having problems with the discrimination that keeps following me where ever I go. I have been beaten up with bibles, getting curse words thrown at me, and my parents are getting concerned because they are Lutherans that goes to every church function.
I just do not know what to do because I am at that point to just drop the whole being gay part and just live my life as a lie. What I want to ask is how the heck did you get the courage to stand for what you are as a person and why did you take that stand on National television?
Hope that you get a chance to read this and I am happy to answer whatever things you ask. Take care
-Kristopher Hanson
Hey Mike,
I was just wondering what Bible version did you get those verse from? I have KJV and they do say some of that but not the part about loving him more than he does a woman. I am a Christian. I believe that the old testament is just that old. Jesus said that from this day forth that what he says we should live by. So I do believe that we can eat bacon and women can speak in church. Jesus wants us to show humility, love, forgiveness, etc… I was just wondering what your thoughts on what Jesus says about marriage? If you believe to follow his other traits he states, what about marriage? Don’t get me wrong, I am not asking this because I am perfect. I am just a person who wants to learn about God. I know my interpretations are not the same as yours or any others as our walks with God is our OWN walk, right? I was just curious to know.
Christine, maybe you were looking at the wrong verse? In the King James version of what Mike cited, David tells Jonathan in 2 Samuel 1: 26
…”thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.”
Then in 1 Samuel 20, they made a loving covenant to each other and kised one another “until David exceeded.”
I don’t know how you get that they are homosexuals from that comment. Even if that did prove that there were homosexuals back then, well that isn’t a shock because there has been homosexuals since pretty much the beginning of time. I guess you didn’t read what I said. I believe that when Jesus said forget all and follow what I say is what to be done. Jesus states marriage between a man and a woman. I do not understand how people can rationalize that statement from Jesus. It seems like people want to take bits and pieces of history and statements to rationalize their own life. So just because someone felt that someone loved them more than a woman, then that makes it okay to go against what Jesus wants. There was murder in the bible and does that make it okay to go and kill? I guess that is my opinion on what I believe Christianity to be. I am a follower of Jesus and I try everyday to live a life that will have me hopefully end up in heaven. I guess if I was a homosexual I would understand the struggle and the process. I am just a person trying to educate myself on things so I can learn and not be ignorant. There are a lot of people out there who would just say homosexuals are the devil and evil and blah blah blah and not know any more than that. I just want to understand.
I have been a follower of Jesus ever since college (about 8 years now) and I have struggled with my sexuality ever sine I was a freshman in high school. I must say as a follower of Jesus that there is a HUGE difference between temptation and sin. I am tempted to have sex with both men and women but I also know that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Everywhere you look in the Bible sex outside of marriage is condemned. This goes for ANY sex outside of marriage. It goes for lust as well. If I lust after a guy or girl I have committed adultery with that person in my heart–that’s what Jesus says. I get really frustrated when people who say they love Jesus don’t love people in the homosexual community. I think it’s important to relize too that Jesus is very loving. His love is perfect but he never tolerated sin. In fact he is not tolerate at all. He says of himself that HE is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through him. In other words no one goes to heaven unless they believe in Jesus.
But I digress. The Bible tells us sex outside of marriage is sin. It also says that marriage is between one man and one woman. I really love the sermon of a pastor I heard online that was posted on Mike’s facebook page. And basically what I’m saying is exactly what was said in this sermon series. I mean if sex outside of marriage is wrong and marriage is between one man and one woman then homosexual sex is wrong. Of course this also means that a heterosexual unmarried couple having sex is also wrong. I do not discriminate between sin. There is no worse sin than another and to say that homosexuals are worse than other sin is wrong. I think followers of Christ should love equally.
My sexuality is a huge struggle with me sometimes but I have to realize that even though I did not choose to have these desires for other men I have to also take responsibility if I act out on them. I can choose to either glorify God or glorify myself and give into my sinful desires. I admire Mike for some of what he’s doing because I think there is far too much hate and discrimination against the LGBT community. However I CANNOT support same sex marriage because I can find no where in the Bible where same sex marriage is supported. I have to say that if Mike is a follower of Christ and he really has accepted Jesus how can he support same sex marriage? I’d like to know where in the Bible it speaks of same sex marriage. Ultimately one must accept there is a difference between temptation and sin. I am tempted to go out and kiss and have sex with men and go to gay bars but I cannot and I must resist the devil because if I engage in these activities I sin. I am not perfect by any means but I must believe what the bible and more importantly my conscience tells me. I’ve been to gay bars and I’ve messed around with guys and my conscience tells me it’s wrong and the Bible attests to that.
John,
The Bible is an anthology of all kinds of writings and letters. The authors of some of the quotes and writings within it were cited to Jesus, some is from people who agreed with Jesus and others who disagreed with him.
Books within the Bible you have now (the contents of which may vary depending on who the publisher is and what they’ve added and subtracted from it) have been voted in and voted out, translated, altered and changed from the originals, over and over again. And all of this was done AFTER Jesus’ time. Jesus never recommended to anyone to follow “the Bible” that you have.
In fact, to do so, you would have to have a very schizophrenic personality, since Jesus taught peace love and understanding while “the Bible” teaches things like to kill your neighbor if he does his yard work on a Saturday, murder your children if you catch them swearing, and to commit animal sacrifices on a mountaintop if you touch a woman during her period.
Jesus didn’t recommend those things, and he never said one word on record against same-sex relationships or homosexuality. When he did refer to the tendency of a man leaving his parents to take a wife, it was in the context of condemning divorce and saying that after a divorce, marrying a second time is an adulterous relationship.
While I think that organizing your decisions around the ideas of superstitious people from thousands of years ago (some of whom didn’t even agree with Jesus) is a recipe for a potentially sad and empty life, it’s your legal right to do that (I mean except for all those things recommended in the Bible that are illegal.)
But you can choose not to get divorced and still support divorced people being allowed to marry. (Ironically, many of the government leaders who most attack the marriage of same-sex couples have the worst records in their own marriages).
In a free society, you can choose to go to church while supporting other people’s right to NOT attend a church or to attend a synagogue or temple instead.
You can also, in a free society, choose to think marrying a certain kind of partner (same-sex, different race, different religion, or WHATEVER it may be in your religion) is a “sin,” but still support the rights of your neighbor to choose to marry a Methodist or a Filipino or a man, according to his own conscience.
The idea of anyone to enforce his own religious beliefs by law is what really offends my sensibilities, and I wish you get get at least past that.
But for the sake of your own sanity and happiness and productivity in life, I’d wish you could look at what you see written in a Bible from a more open point of view, taking into account who is being quoted in the sentence you’re reading, who chose to include it in the version your publisher picked, what it actually said in the original version and language (which in many cases is quite different from some current popular versions) and what the context is of what was being said.
I have to disagree with a lot of what you’re saying. You say that “Jesus didn’t recommend those things” in which I assume you’re referring to things written in Leviticus where God gives the nation of Israel the law. Yes, it is true that the law is not for followers of Christ. However, as Paul states “if it were not for the law, I would not know what sin is” (that’s a loose translation…not word for word but the idea is the same). The law is not for the believer. The believer has been set free from the law. Christ came not to condemn the law but to fulfill it. Jesus spoke on the Sermon on the Mount about divorce and he also spoke about a man lusting after a women and how that’s committing adultery in your heart. And likewise a man lusting after another man is committing adultery with that man in his heart. In other words, Jesus said that lust was sin.
It seems like you don’t want to obey any of the Old Testament. And you must understand that’s all that existed in the time of Jesus. The new testament was written anywhere from 20-60 years after Christ died and rose again. So when Jesus was preaching and referred to the scriptures he referred to what we now call the old testament.
And why do you have to ONLY base everything you believe on what Jesus said? Why not take scripture as a whole?
Also, you commented about “what the publisher chose to include, etc” and I read from the NASB or ESV, in other words I read from literal translations in which they take the original Greek and Hebrew and translate it to English. Yes, some is lost in translation–I will agree with that. The translation is not perfect. Greek has four words for what we translate as “love”. So yes, I refer to the original Greek and Hebrew from time to time in my own studies of Scripture because I know they’re not always accurate and I want to know what the author said in the original language.
I do not lead a empty and sad life when I obey God. In fact, it is when I disobey Him–when I seek after other things besides Him and when I try to fill my God given desires and needs for acceptance, affirmation, and significance in other things besides God Himself, that I feel lost, empty, and sad. When I lust after a man and I engage in sexual activity outside the context of marriage I feel lost and empty. I do not feel at home in this world and nor should I because as a believer I am now an alien in the world–that’s what the Scriptures say. And to say that I should base my life SOLELY on the writings of Jesus–well what writings of Jesus do we have? He didn’t write any of the bible. It is true Jesus never recommended anyone to follow the bible we have now because it didn’t exist 2,000 years ago. However, he did tell people to follow Him and he did quote the Old Testament numerous times. So are those quotations invalid? I do not pick and choose what to believe in the Bible. I look at the Bible as a whole and it’s teachings and follow those and through the power of the Holy Spirit and the grace He alone gives me, I obey Him and what He proclaims TO DO and NOT TO DO.
And your comment about context is key. I do not read bible verses. I think to read a bible verse is to not take the Bible in context. I think one should always try to read at least a paragraph or even a chapter in order to gain proper context for what the author is trying to say.
It is true that many government leaders who oppose same sex marriage have horrible marriages but I’d also add the same is true of people who are pro same sex marriage as well. Marriage is taken very lightly in this country and is looked at as a piece of paper many times and if things don’t go right they just get a divorce because that’s easier than trying to resolve the differences. Let’s just face it–people don’t like to put others first. They like to be self-centered people and marriage is about sacrifice and putting the needs, wants, and desires of the other person before your own. I never wanted to get married growing up because my parents had (and still have) a marriage of convenience more than a marriage based on love. To put it simply they did not have a Godly marriage at all. And until I saw what a Godly marriage really and truly looked like–until I saw the self-sacrifice involved and the humility it took to be married, but also the immense joy and love these married couples had I never wanted to be married. Now I do because I see what a Godly marriage is like. I see how much work it is but I also see what an amazing gift it is.
“Also, you commented about “what the publisher chose to include, etc” and I read from the NASB or ESV, in other words I read from literal translations in which they take the original Greek and Hebrew and translate it to English.”
John T: The Bible versions you are choosing are actually perfect examples of what I was referring to, where the publishers have making personal or politically-motivated decisions to change things to what they WANTED them to say.
For example, look at Corinthians written in Koine Greek. In one of the most notorious “clobber passages,” Paul makes a list of people who, in his opinion, he thinks won’t get into heaven, and on his list, he included “μαλακοι”, which means in English “soft” (either “soft to touch” or, figuratively (which makes more sense here) “of soft and pliable character” (willing to do anything anyone tells you to).
Then look at the New American Standard Version. The publisher has changed the word μαλακοι (which Paul actually wrote) into something completely different: “effeminate,” (even though there is no connection in Greek.) (I remember seeing that word as a child and thinking Paul’s idea seemed very unfair to feminine men as well as all women… until I studied other languages and could see that it wasn’t Paul who even said that).
Then look in the third version you mentioned, the English Standard Version. Instead of changing that word to something new and different from what Paul said, they just decided to remove it altogether.
I’ve watched Hollywood movies in other languages that I had already seen in English, and it can be amusing how the dubbed version sometimes reflects decisions that have been made to change the meaning of lines entirely.
Changing, adding and omitting words may seem pretty harmless in a case like that, but the problem with the way this has happened with books used as scriptures in religions is that literalists have, throughout history, used as little as one word or one sentence somewhere as a justification to enslave black people, torture left-handed people, deny rights to gay people, keep women out of jobs, exterminate Jews, fly planes into buildings full of innocents, etc. etc. etc.
I take what Paul said with a grain of salt even in the language he used (since he was only expressing his own opinions), but when I am reading a re-done version of his words in English or any other language, I don’t always even necessarily assume it’s similar to what he said, because sometimes it really seems that it is not.
You mention looking at a passage in Corinthians and how the meaning has been changed in the NASB/ESV. What verses are you referring to specifically? I’d like to look it up and do my own research.
Wow! This was very well put…very honestly stated, and very conciously aware of the difference of where your thoughts come from.
I was actually talking to John NOT GregV. (just to clarify)
Dear John,
I totally respect the way you take your relationship with God seriously. I myself have stuggled a lot as well with my faith and sexuality. For over 26 years I have lived a life of celebacy untill the moment I fell in love with my husband. The love I felt and still feel for him is really beautifull. In the beginning I didn’t want to act on my feelings, but after some time I realized that God=Love and I couldn’t withhold my love for the person God has brought into my life. We are together for 14 years and were able to get married 3,5 years ago for law and in our church. I wish that everyone would have this choice in live.
Hi Mike,
thank you very much for your words of wisdom. Because of what you said I actually developed the courage to tell my mom about my sexuality.
I have a question for you:
what should I do if I am in love with a man who loves me to, but is afraid to face the sections in the bible frowning uopn homosexuality? should I still wait for him to develop the courage to accept what he feels even though I aleardy waited a year?
please, if you can help me out, send me a message with advice because I really need it.
Hey Mike,
I just wanted to know if you yourself actually check this responses and reply to them, yourself. If so then I could actually post a conversation question that would help me alot. If you don’t check this though, then there is no point in me asking Mike a question when Mike won’t see it!
omg thank you so much for saying this. watching you on the real world inspired me so much, i was ashamed of who i was before watching you. but after seeing what you have done i have become inspired to do so much. i have come out to a few people now and am in my first serious relationship with someone. i am 18 years old and bi and a Christian and like many others have said here was beginning to loose my faith. reading this helped so much and i thank you sooo much for everything you do. i hoep one day i get the chance to meet you.
thank you
“And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.” Romans 1:27
I love the points that Mike brought up. Being a gay Christian myself, I have faced many struggles. I bring the above verse up, not to start controversy nor an argument, because I feel like it should be included in the discussion. It was not spoken by Jesus; however, as Christians, we have to trust everything that the Bible says. Otherwise, what’s the point? Faith is based on trust. We must trust that what is contained in the Word to be the Truth.
I, like Mike, have never been offended and don’t think it’s wrong for women to speak in the church. I hate to say that verse is disregarded, but it’s not followed in a literal sense. Also, anyone who has read the Old Testament knows that it is completely different than the New Testament. I suppose what I’m getting at is more of a question than a statement. At what point do we draw the line? How do know what to follow literally and figuratively?
This is something I’ve had a great deal of discussion with my roommate and his fiancee. I honestly cannot preach to everyone as if I have the answers. I mainly have questions. I do, however, feel it’s worth bringing every aspect to light.
I hope that everything made sense. If not, feel free to ask for clarification!
Karl,
I appreciate your honesty and questions are excellent. I too have had and still have many questions and don’t pretend to have all the answers.
First, I find it very hard for someone to call themselves a “gay Christian”. I have homosexual desires but I AM NOT GAY. I am a heterosexual male who struggles and who is tempted with homosexual desires. I think this is a very important difference that should be made. The reason is simple–Paul says “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old is gone and the new has come” (2 Cor. 5:17–rough translation–look it up in the ESV or NASB). If we are indeed a new creation and the old has gone and new has come then as a follower of Christ we are not defined by our sin and our temptation. I have a Christian brother of mine who struggles with alcoholism but he is not an alcoholic. Why? He’s a follower of Christ and as such he is not defined by his sin. He (and you and I and anyone else who is IN CHRIST) are defined by HIM AND HIM ALONE. HE is our righteousness. He alone saves and it is through HIM ALONE that we have forgiveness of sins. It’s not through Muhammad or Buddha or any other religion or false god.
You ask the question of “literal vs. figurative”. I think it depends on what book you’re reading and what type of literature it is (at least as a starting point). Obviously the Song of Solomon is poetry, so are the Psalms. In poetry you have hyperbole and metaphors and similes. In other words, things that aren’t meant to be taken literally all the time–some things are some aren’t. That would depend solely on the context of the passage.
A passage like Paul writes about women not being allowed to speak should be taken into context of the culture and society and other verses preceding and post-ceding it. If you read the entire chapter, Paul is speaking about the worship in churches, about prophecy vs. speaking in tongues and how speaking in tongues should be avoided without an interpretation. It’s obvious that Paul doesn’t mean that a woman should NEVER speak in church because in chapter 11 Paul writes that women can pray and speak scripture in the church with a headcovering. This is in context of the culture of the church. Paul is writing about the distinction in the roles of men versus women in the church. You need to understand the context of the church at Corinth and the worship style as that of a synagogue and having multiple teachers coming in on a weekly basis and having different teachers every week. In verse 32 Paul states that prophets should be subject to prophets. Basically what is going on here is that the elders of the church would agree, disagree, or qualify what was being said in the church worship service to maintain doctoral integrity. And when Paul is saying that women should be silent, he means that women should be silent while the elders of the church are speaking and weighing whether or not they agree with the teaching/prophesy that was being given in the church.
Anyone wanting more on this, just reply to me or check out this website: http://www.austinstone.org/resources/sermons/category/1_corinthians/P40/. Go to #47 and click on it.
Karl, the words you quoted are a letter from Paul to the people of Rome. The context (if you read the whole letter) is that he went to a religious temple and saw a cult worshipping statues of birds and reptiles and going through sexual rituals “in the pews,” so to speak.
Remember that in that day men were kept pretty separate from women in churches (Paul didn’t even think women should be allowed to speak), so it would not be odd for men to leave their women separately in the “silent” section.
He doesn’t say exactly what the “unseemly” things they were doing were, but I picture things like snake statues used as dildos and the people in the pews going through the rituals with their neighbors with their spouses on the other side and the high priest guiding them.
I know it sounds odd, especially today when these kinds of cults are something you only occasionally read about in the news, but in Paul’s time these kinds of cults were common, and Paul was disgusted. he did write, though, that his letters were only his own opinion and he did not want people to assume he thought he was speaking for God．．．
(…continued, to Karl:)
You say, “as Christians, we have to trust everything that the Bible says. I would imagine you have been told this since you were a kid, but have you ever questioned why?
Jesus didn’t recommend these Bibles. I think a lot of the Bible’s letters and books should only be used to give context about what this person or that person was doing or thinking or imagined God wanted. Jesus contradicted a lot of those people’s ideas, If a person is a Christian, I think the question of “where do I draw the line” should be answered: Draw it at what Jesus taught.
Have you ever studied a different language? Try reading the Bible in a couple of different English versions (like “King James” and “good News”), then in French (Louis XIV) and then in Koine Greek, which is the actual language the letter you quoted was written in. You soon realize that translators and publishers have changed the words to suit what they thought people SHOULD have said, not what they actually wrote.
John, you asked what verse I was specifically referring to in my example. That example is found in 1 Corinthians verse 6:9 (and in 6:10 in some versions).
It’s just one example, though. there are many others, including the very next term on Paul’s list which, he wrote as “αρσενοκοιται.” In modern Greek, that word is not used and its exact meaning is unknown, but most scholars of ancient Greek think, because of its context and roots, that it probably refered to temple prostitutes (at that time, it was common for cults to provide prostitutes to have sex with members at worship services — remember the type of worship service that Paul describes in which people are worshiping snakes and birds.)
So, anyway, keeping in mind that that is the word that Paul used, if you look at the French Bible (Louis II translation) the word “αρσενοκοιται” has been changed to “les infâmes,” which just means “people famous for doing bad things.” In the New American Standard Version which you said you like, it has been changed again to “homosexuals” (that word never appeared in any version in any language before the 1940’s).
In the Worldwide English translation, Paul’s full list of people he thinks won’t get into heaven has become: “They are those who commit adultery of any kind, those who have idols, or steal, or are always wanting more, or talk wrong things about people, or drink plenty of strong drink, or take things by force, or curse.”
Each translation away from the Koine Greek seems to alter Paul’s list in some way and add, subtract, and change it slightly into what Paul “should have said” instead of what he did say.
Guys, jesus does not heal homosexuality. I am living proof, as opposed to the deluded ex-gays. Get over it, cause this debate is never ending, and futile. It causes much anguish and suffering.
Hey Mike, I wanted to tell you ya, people misuse the bible a lot to workout for there lives, they manipulate the bible and religion to fit what’s comfortable for them. It is simply wrong, God says any man who adds a word to his word will be in big trouble. And yes people all interpret the bible differently but if you believe in the bible you have to believe in all of it that includes the very straight to the point verses.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Romans 1:26-27 – “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
God didn’t not create man for man or women for women.
I love everyone and so does God, but God does not love sin and homosexuality is sin. God says it clearly.
And your right, HRC was created for reason. The Devil does whatever he can to pervert christians and the world to justify sin, hes done it so much with us christians. Were not suppose to hate or bash Gays, nor mistreat them. We are suppose to love them as God loves everyone but we must not justify or love the sin. If God had intended man to be with man than he would have made just man, and man would be able to conceive and pro create, same with women. But we cant because were meant to be with the other sex. The devil perverts so much, just like he perverted christians into thinking it is ok to beat and murder, or steal, ravage and rape just as you said thats not God thats man.
So many sins are so hard to let go of, no one is born Gay there born into sin just like all of us, we all have a sin that follows us, we are all sinful people, with sinful minds, sinful wants. The Flesh, but its no excuse what God says is wrong is wrong. I dont hate Gays, ive been there done that, and fell in love hard in love, but my God stands above all, and I couldnt stand the sin, I know and knew it was wrong. There is no way to change it, it is how it is.
and with Jonhathon and David, those verses to me are interpreted and best friends, yes they found more fulfillment in eachother than in women, but thats not pointing to gay its pointing to a strong friendship. Back in there day and still to this day it is there way of greeting and embracing each-other with a kiss. not in American culture but theres is was not a homosexual kiss, it was culture. The bible doesnt say they laid with each-other or fell in love, or married, or anything they just had a deep deep love for each-other as I do for a very close friend of mine.
Marriage is Gods, not ours to redefine. Marriage is meant for man and women. Thats how Gods always wanted it and always will otherwise he would have said so.
Much love hope you understand what I am trying to say. no anger no hate just love.
everyone can believe what they want but there absolute truth its there, and when the end comes we will all see. Theres not justifying to do, no explaining why we believe what we believe. Its simple God says his word is truth. so if we have manipulated or changed it to fit our lives or what makes us feel better, then we are liers and have to stand before God excuse-less. Because he gave us truth he gave us words to live by, and if we didnt we have answer to God about it, and it wont be fun.
Melissa, the conversation above your post discussed those sentences you posted.
There are several issues I take with your claims: One is that you say “God said…” when you are citing two sentences said by Paul (who also mentioned, to his credit, that he wrote his own opinions and did not presume to be speaking for God), and then another sentence (from Leviticus) that belongs to the rules practised by one particular ancient superstitious tribe whose habits went against the way Jesus was to teach people to live.
If you take that sentence from Leviticus seriously for your own life, do you not feel the same way about the sentences that follow in the rest of Leviticus?
They forbid short hair, blended fabrics, gardens with two types of flowers or vegetables, and the eating of fruit from any tree less than five years old. Then there is the part saying you must make animal sacrifices on a mountaintop on certain days of the year, cut off from your people anyone who has sex during a female’s menstrual period, and kill adulterers.
Since Jesus said that those who marry after a divorce are adulterers, are you going to go around killing all your re-married neighbors just because that tribe in Leviticus wrote that? Have you burned all of your cotton-polyester clothes just because the tribe in Leviticus said they are an abomination?
Do you refuse to prepare any of your food on Saturday, getting it all ready on Friday as the Bible teaches? And do you go around murdering your neighbors if you see them mowing their lawn on Saturday (because that’s what those ancient tribes you’re quoting thought was the proper thing to do to anyone who does any work on Saturday… They also killed children for swearing).
Much of what those people did is illegal in our society. Would you not agree that anyone who practices what the people in Leviticus did is too dangerous a person to be walking on the streets?
In any case, 1Timothy 2:12 says: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” By posting, it’s clear that you don’t follow that one (nor would I suggest that you should), but the sentences in the Bible that you chose to point out to others seem to be arbitrary.
I thinks it’s very easy to pick a sentence out of the Bible to follow if it doesn’t affect you in any noticeable negative way, while ignoring everything that would affect you.
But as a gay person myself, I see my sexuality as a gift that allows me a wonderful relationship and definitely a psychologically and physically healthier life than I would have by denying who I am or denying myself a relationship. It would contribute nothing positive to my life to do that.
Mike, for what it’s worth… the movie includes a glimpse into the life of Jacob Reitan – I suspect the two of you have similar experiences. Jacob is an amazing young man and I suspect you are too.
As for the Bible, the engineer side of me tells me to remain silent.
First off like I said before, if God had intended us to live or be homosexual, he Would have said or made us that way.
Marriage God made for a man and a women.
We were made in his image so the man refelcts the masuclane parts of who God is and a women the feminine parts of who God is.
God made us that way so we could directly reflect Gods image on our families.
and also the other things you stated, what your saying is just because people dont follow stuff in the bible its justifies your sin. I am not trying to justify any of my sins. You are.
God makes the rules not me,and homosexuality is a sin. A part of the flesh, lusting for the same sex is just as a sin as lusting for animals, or lieing or killing, or stealing. Sin is all equal in Gods eyes, you keep reading the verses about homosexuality and redefining them because you dont feel comfortable with them. Read them as they are not try and say oh well God really meant this and that.
God puts one rule on sex that is Genesis 2:24-25 says, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
To have sex within marriage only, with a women.
If God wanted male and male to be together he would have made men able to produce, and he would have gave them a place to have sex. He gave us bootie holes for pooping, not for sex.
He gave us mouthes to speak his word and praise him not for sex.
Since your such an expert I am sure you know why God destroyed Sodom? right because of there sexual immorality.
You keep saying oh they were sinning with other things, well man was no more created to share sex with same sex then he was with animals or any other thing.
You cant justify a sin with a sin.
Every bit of the word of God was inspired by God not by man. That is why it is the book of God, if you dont believe that the word of God is inpired by God then you cant be preaching to me.
(When we look at this passage in light of other Scripture, the intended context becomes much more obvious. It is Scripturally very clear that women did in fact pray aloud and prophecy in church services (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5.) What then, do these verses ultimately mean ? Verse 35 gives us some indication: “If they (the women) will LEARN anything, let them ASK their husbands at home.” Apparently, the problem Paul was dealing with was women causing disruption in the church services by asking their husbands questions in a disorderly manner. )
When God talks about clothing he is talking in an agricultural stand point. It screws everthing up if you mix the fabrics up.
“They forbid short hair, blended fabrics, gardens with two types of flowers or vegetables, and the eating of fruit from any tree less than five years old. Then there is the part saying you must make animal sacrifices on a mountaintop on certain days of the year, cut off from your people anyone who has sex during a female’s menstrual period, and kill adulterers. ”
I dont have short hair my hair is very long, I dont have garden, and about animal sacrifices I dont know if you have read the new testiment but God says you dont have to do that anymore, he was the ultimate sacrifice! He paid all sin, there is no need for animal sacrifices any more that is why he came.
Jesus says denie your self and pick up you cross and follow him. You are suppose to denie your self we are sinful people living in sinful ways if we follow everything our body and emotions tell us it gets us nowhere. God says not to make decisions based on emotions, bt on his word. Also simply saying that by following his way and leaving your ways behind that youll never be happy is doubting Gods power and plan. God has a plan for every life and no matter how hard it is to denie our selves the things the flesh wants, we have to because we know nothing, we see a piece God sees the whole picture.
also, if you dont have a relationship with God, youve just studied the bible, then you dont know anything about God and what he wants.
ummm….Hey everyone!
People have been misinterpreting the Bible for a very, very, very long time… so it is mighty possible for them to be doing so now.
Aside from that fact, I do not understand why others try SO HARD to get everyone to believe in what they believe in.
Whether or not somethinks it is ok to be GLBT, its their choice and we must allow every one to make their choice.
Cause really,… why should anyone care who I fall in love with? Where is the consequence?Rather .. What is the consequence?
Back to the point… If we observe Jesus’s teachings, is so much more based on love and understanding. We should try … have the desire to understand each other.
To Tina. The consequence is Hell. And you say Jesus’s teachings are love, well this is no a buffet you cant pick and choose out of Jesus’s teachings, he says were sinners and the consequence of our sin is hell. Unless you have christ in your life and are living by his ways, no ones perfect but Jesus was thats we are to follow in his steps.
Jesus does teach about love, but God also teaches a lot about sin. Its our duty as Gods children to teach his word, and sin leads nowhere good. God doesnt want you to live in sin. Thats like saying oh, dont try and help your mom out her addiction to heroin its her choice, it may be her choice but its not right, and its not how she was meant to live. Love doesnt get you into heaven, have Jesus in your life and living the way he says to does. God doesnt let good people into heaven, only those who have him in there lives and hearts. We are all sinful people and heaven is a perfect place so sinful people no matter how much money you donate or what church you go to or what you volunteer for, it only matters if Gods in your life and you have asked for forgivness of your sins, and have turned away from those sins.
Not the good deeds you do. None of us are good people we all have sinned.
And people may interpret the bible wrong all the time including in this situation, but with those verses God is Clear. Very clear there should be no way of mis interpreting it, just as if someone says no is no, God is saying it is a sin.
And for Greg. Leviticus apply to Gods chosen the jews, christians live by the new convenant/new testiment. We still follow the ten commandments and so on but the levitical law was made for the jews after coming out of egypt to become holy people.
And as for you saying the verse in Romans was refering to otherwise sinning with other things it wasnt. It was clear a man exchaning natural relations with a women and laying with a man. Clear. Its a sin. God made marriage and to Glorify all he is. A Man and women is picture of God and the church.
Sexuality is distorted by sin, and to say that your right because of what you feel, your telling God no your wrong, my feeling are right, your just deGoding God and placing your self above him
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=123857719
If your confused on the subject, against, for, need insight theres this great podcast that lays it all down. Just listen see if the situation makes more sence on both sides. Its number 19 when you get to the page.
JUST LISTEN TO IT.
What you wrote, Mike, expresses how I feel.
I am myself straight, but I have never found an answer to the question why on earth the Lord would hate gay people.
Frequently, I participated in a meeting of Christian youth in Germany (where I come from) and a woman claimed that “homosexuality is a disgust to the Lord” and people who tend to be gay have to go to a kind of REHAB so that, one day, they might be able to love the other sex.
Well, the question is rather controversial, that’s more than true, but I was so shocked that my religion should contain such a deep expression of hatred towards people who may possibly love the Lord as much as any other Christian.
I really don’t know what to think for there will never be one answer. Really, I just want to serve the Lord, but…it’s so hard to know what to think…
Though, thanks a lot for your statement.
Liza,
You must understand that the message of Christ is love. However, Jesus was very intolerant and by that I mean he did not tolerate sin. So Jesus hated sin but he loved humanity and loved US. As a follower of Jesus I do not hate homosexuals–I do hate the sin though. And it’s the same for my heterosexual friends that go out and try and pick up girls and have sex with random people or even if that person is their girlfriend. I hate the fact they’re doing it but I do not judge them for it because the Bible states they’re a slave to their sin–in other words they know no better. Me, as a follower of Christ, has the Holy Spirit living inside of me and so as such I am no longer a slave to sin but a new creation and a slave to righteousness. In essence I am a man who does the will of God. Sure I mess up and I definitely sin. I lust but I know it’s wrong. And whether I lust after a man or a woman is not really important–I lust after both and God forgives me when I ask Him.
Oh thanks for that answer!
So it’s up to me now to be their example how to live without sin, am I?
What can I do if people ask me what I think about their life? ( my homo- and bisexual friends as well as the ones who are kind of promiscuous) I am not the one to judge and of course I am still a sinner myself. But I have to be honest as well…
But still, as a christ-follower I am thankful for that answer, really!
Well I am glad you’re thankful for the answer.
I, of course still sin and still have a sin nature inside of me or else I wouldn’t need the forgiveness of Christ. And, accordingly I lust and go outside the will of God in matters of my own sexuality.
I think the answer to whether or not you judge the person is dependent on whether or not they’re a Christ-follower or claim to be a Christ-follower. If one of my brothers is caught in sin–i.e. I have a fellow Christian brother in my bible study or a good friend on is a Christian is going out and having sex with his girlfriend or living against the will of God it is my duty to point out that sin and pray that he would repent. At my church a pastor a few years ago confessed to being addicted to pornography and he and his wife were later reconciled and he repented of his sin and stopped looking at pornography.
There’s a huge difference in confronting a Christian or a non-Christian. I would never seek to condemn or judge a person who does not claim to be a follower of Christ. But when someone claims to be a follower of Christ, the Bible calls us to encourage one another in our walks with Him and to encourage one another to live a life that’s pleasing to God–a life of obedience (meaning, for example, abstaining from sexual immorality).
And I would not classify a Christ-follower as a homosexual even if they have those desires. A Christian is not defined by their sin but is defined by Christ and what he did on the cross.
I would say Liza, be honest with your homo and bisexual friends and tell them you do not agree with their lifestyle (same goes with the promiscuous ones as well) but do it if they ask or you sense an open door of opportunity to talk about it. I wouldn’t just go up to a friend of mine who likes to sleep around with as many women as possible (and I’ve got a friend like that now) and tell him I don’t agree with his lifestyle and leave it at that–I would seek to build a relationship with him and talk to him about my beliefs if he asks.
I’m not quite sure whether you get to read this, but my insecurity dealing with my friends in that concern- Christian or not- is that I feel like I don’t really know enough about my own religion to tell others about it in order to help them. Recently I have actually had that opportunity of talking to a friend whose lifestyle is not quite compatible with his statement to be a follower of Christ. And he even asked me to help him. I did my best, but I just felt immensely helpless. Sometimes I even wonder if I am a worthy follower of Christ. When I read your reply and it was so helping and really filled with faith and knowledge about what we believe in, I keep on wondering how the Lord can possibly accept me being so unable to represent him on earth. (if you know what I mean)
Be blessed and from inside of my heart I hope that you can stick to your principles…
Well Liza I must say that it sounds like you’re a believer in Christ. To tell you the truth you’re very unworthy. So I am. That’s the beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s not about us–it’s only about Him and his glory. The only thing that you must do is fix your eyes on Him and fall in love with Him more and more everyday and have faith. I was at church last night and the pastor was speaking on temptation and how temptation IS NOT sin. Temptation gives birth to sin and sin gives birth to death but temptation is not sin. When you feel helpless seek God and ask God for guidance. In truth you are helpless. You cannot change your friend but you can be their for them and help them and encourage them and love them by the power of the Spirit. He will give you the power if you just ask. If you’d like to talk on a more personal level let me know and I’ll e-mail you or you can e-mail me if you wish.
Oh -I’d definitely like to..
Even if I’m a bit insecure about publishing my mailing address, here it is: mirandolina.am.meer@googlemail.com
hey mike i real world d.c. and how yo spent youe time there was amazing for me (by the way i am the one on twitter who is asking for help from you) anyways i am christian like you i want to help people accept themselves if there gay,bi,lesbian, doesn’t matter i want to do all the things to help out the world like you my name is luis im 16 and im bisexual and recently i came out to my dad lately and now its knid of wierd around him he is not speaking to me often and my stepmom she is really a hater aginst same sex stuff im afraid to tell her when i saw you on t.v. i knew you were the only one that could help me i am having trouble right now my mom even kicked me out of the house for being bisexual i sooo @%&^*$# scared right now please reply back to me at luis_vaogas@yahoo.com your biggest fan and friend luis P.S. hows life with you and tanner you guys make a cute couple all of my friends think that and so do i well bi
sorry on my first sentence i menat i saw real world d.c. sorry for any other mistakes
hey mike, just wanted to “thank you” for all the hard work and dedication you have been putting in for our right to marry, serve openly and live as “‘normal” people do in a country that is based on FREEDOM. i’m currently activie duty military and help so many people like you. it’s kinda like i’m fighting the war from the inside
i don’t know you personally, but you’r AWESOME and keep up the hard work!
Hey mike. I want to thank you so much for writing this article. I’ve been struggling with religion and my sexuality since I was fifteen when I came in contact with this born again christian church that told me if I didn’t change my ways I would go to hell,yet at the same time they said “God hates the sin not the sinner”. If that’s true then why would he send someone to hell? I’m 25 now and it’s still a struggle for me. To see someone so young doing the things you do like being open about who you are and helping to make a difference is amazing. You’re a beautiful person on the inside and out. You’re so strong and you’re inspirational. You definitely blossomed while being on the show and became a man. You’re extremely mature for your age and very well spoken. I truly believe that God has put you on this earth to make a difference in how LGBT people are viewed and to help us with getting our rights. Once again thanks. God bless.
Hey Jeanie, if you are a lesbian you should check out my website, http://www.herjuicebox.com, we are a PROUD Lesbian Community
with love,
Bella
Her Juice Box
“…since I was fifteen when I came in contact with this born again christian church that told me if I didn’t change my ways I would go to hell…”
@Jeanie: Fundmanetalist Christians used to say the same thing to left-handed kids. If a kid was caught writing or favoring his left hand, It was tied behind his back and he was told to stop sinning. At one time, left-handed adults were even tortured by these so-called “Christians” and told God would not approve of their left-handedness.
The people who are hurting other people and unnecessarily complicating other people’s lives think the one who isn’t harming anyone is the one who’s the “sinner.” Ironic!
Mike,
As a lesbian, I would like to thank you for all that you are doing for the LGBT community!
I too have a website and we have just added a “Gay & God Fearing” page to our site and that is how I found your page through Google.
I have you bookmarked now and will be adding your site to my blogroll. Keep doing what you are doing, you are SUCH an inspiration to our generation!!!
http://www.herjuicebox.com
Proud Lesbian Community
Hi Mike,
I’m glad to see that you are getting more comfortable being yourself and not letting religion interfere with quality living. Morality should be justified by giving good reasons, not by arbitrary claims from the Bible. People who discriminate against LGBT people cause unnecessary harm which is immoral no matter how anyone interprets the Bible. Just as you have given up the closet for a life of freedom, many LGBT people have given up religion for a happy life of reason. Best wishes!
i am bi and i am a christian and i think everyone should just worry about themselfs and leave everyone else alone that doesnt have to do with them because if everyone else would mind there own business then there would not be any of this hatred
I think you did a great job or showing that a person is able to be bi/gay and Christian. There needs to be more examples of this. I think there are people who long to be Christian, but feel they cannot because of who they are physically and sexually attracted to. I could go on and on.
I’m looking forward to a trip to Washington, DC in September. I’m going for a seminar on International Human Rights and then I’m staying an extra week to explore the city, site-see, and research on International Human Rights issues in regard to gays and lesbians.
JJ
“Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my rightous right hand.” Isaiah 41:10
Another great verse to add to your lists. No matter what obstacles life throws at us, just remember God is always with us to give us strength.
Jacob C. Schumacher
Old Frontenac, MN
John 8:7-11
7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11″No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
As a Christian I know that we all struggle with sin in our day to day lives, but i also know God wants us to always try and better ourselves. These verses show that, therefore shouldn’t you “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
dear mike hey remember me its luis for some reason i think u dont check these i waited forever for u to write back but i dont care i am just sayin although u didnt talked to me u still helped my mom knows about me being bisexual but she dont approve either like my dad but i got good news i found someone online we like eachother very much only thing that is bad about him is that he lives in australia it sucks well i am proud of myself more i have pride in me and i am very proud to be a christian i luv my lord well i hope u write to me i really do need to talk right now luis_vaogas@yahoo.com please write back good luck out there
Mike- thank you so much for who you are and what you do. I loved the show, and I am also a bi (more into men) Christian. It is always so encouraging to find someone who is “out” in the public eye, and they have faith. I to regard church as a safe and welcoming place. Thanks for being a voice mike.
I love Mike and I want to share these views.
In the catholic church it was all about conforming to what was said in the bible and especially the interpretation given by the Pope, who was seen like a God and never to be questioned.
The backbiting was horrendas and the things said were not worthy of people who say they follow Jesus teachings or profess to be christians – they were behaving more like pharisees. This is an observation of what I saw and what was happening.
The bible is not infaluable and many writers and people over the centuries have taken the book apart and showed very clearly with evidence that the bible is a collection of stories. stories in the same way we read fairy tales.
Some of them have some very interesting wisdom to pass on but at the end of day it is just a story and nothing else. Religon in the hands of man, even a Pope, is very dangerous as there is no real evidence to show the original books have not been tampered with and also the men who wrote the books were not Gods and they did not profain to be.
This means their writings will have flaws inaccuracies and mistruths and will be full of their character, lack of judgement, narrow mindedness and every other flaw known to man. The books will slant to their own personal beliefs and politics.
The question of the Catholic church is very strong in book and film, the Da Vinci code that questioned the Catholic church.
There is a lot of truth there mixed with fiction. Check the real story from the records written at the time, the history and the time and beliefs, you will find there is no real record of Peter going to Rome and the church being continued with the permission of Peter. There is no real record and even evidence now with all the technology that proves the bones in Rome are those of Paul. This means the catholic church has no real link to Jesus or his teachings.
Two forms of christianity were around, one by the followers of Jesus and his disciples and one by the Rome and the Catholic church. The catholic did everything to persecute and stop their church from being formed and destroy all their records – but books did survive.
The Catholic church was started by the last Emperor in Rome, a city that had been anti Christian for many years. This church did what they could to get rid of the other followers. Take the history of power and death and killings, murders in the name of God by the Catholic church. the falsehoods they supported and many of the real truths being hidden, which are there in the 4 gospels and in the other books written by the other disciples and even Peter. You will be shocked.
In this day and age with all the corruption of churches with power and money, it is clear that they should not have any more rights than anyone else and remember their history.
the idea of religion is made by man and not God. Many religions may come forth with good intentions but soon have led the way to much control, abuse of power and forcing people to their religion and for those who did not not – death.
spirituality and love are the way and you will find were supported in the early years of many religions.
for this reason – I know we are all created the way we are they are no mistakes and God loves gay people with no exception
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Mike,well I AM A 52 year old guy in Georgia.Since the day I was born I knew I was different,But I continued to play sports which I love to do.I hunted and fished could chat with any girl or guy just like everybody else.Once I got in high school I became reclusive and shy.I left after High school and went into the navy where I had my first experience with a guy who happened to be my best friend at the time. We split and went our seperate ways.We are friends now but not close friends.Since then I have travel as far away as 150 miles from where I live to meet other guys. I now have to guys I have know for at least 15years and they are straight and they accept me but not my lifestyle.I redidicated my life to christ on Nove 8 of 09,but I stll want to persue my lifestyle.I believe in god his son did die for our sins.They don’t seem to understand that.They said something happened to me as a child and gay lifestyle is immoral.Right now one of my closes friends is not speaking to me I think it is because of my lifestyle,But I am tired of living in the shadows.Any advice?
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*You made some decent points there. I looked on the internet for the issue and found most individuals will go along with with your website.
Here I am not trying to pin-point the facts, but actually I am requesting you to think deeply what you have written above in your paragraph.
1) Whether you pray to an elephant, Buddha or Jesus on a Cross.
Ans: In the above sentence you are actually considering ‘Lord Jesus Christ’ similar to other idols workship in the world. If you will read bible you will find that ‘God said there should not be any God Before me, because past to present and future there is none of the God other then ‘Lord Jesus Christ’.
2) 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ” (34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
(35) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” Does that literally mean that NO woman should ever speak in a church?
I don’t think so…but someone could USE that verse to make it law.
Ans: There is no one else other then ‘Lord Jesus Christ’ who could make law. If you said that any body is using the verse of bible to make it law, it means you are denining the verses of bible from 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. No man has written this Bible, but the God had talked to the prophets and guide them to write the whole bible through his holy spirit.
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Hey Mike, I just want to say what an awesome person you are and how much you have helped me. I’m a strong believer in Christ and have been going to church my whole life however, I don’t know if I’m straight or bisexual. We always say at church to love everyone and then hear everyone talk about how they dislike gays (I don’t go to Westboro, just your typical Southern Baptist chruch) made me feel like an outcast since I support gays and lesbians and may be bi myself. When I first say you on The Real World it made me feel okay in my own skin. I felt like I wasn’t alone. That was like 3 years ago and today I’m still not sure. All I can do is pray for guidance and strength. I just wanted to thank you for all that. You are such a strong person and have overcome so much. I hope you have a great day. You will definitely be in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Nate (16) from Georgia
Mike–we dialoged briefly on religion and sexuality a year ago or so through my gmail…and it’s no longer in my sent box. Not sure if there’s still a copy in your sent box to resume the dialog….but I’d like to. I still commend you on your sincerity of faith and your willingness to use your strength and courage for others.–Eddie
I have read each and one of the comments and I could see the reason why we haven’t gone forward this issue. The bible wasn’t created for controversy specially on an issue that has not been solve. In my short life that I have live I have see and experience so many thing that if I start writing my life I will never finish I come from a Pentecotal church were Women can’t wear jean they have to wear skirts were men can’t enter with jeans unto church because every body stare at you like are out of this world. The point that I want to make clear is that instead of using the bible verses to judge just help out in the problems that are taking place around the world with people that are coming out. There are some verses that I want to share with with is on 1John 3:15,16. If u don’t love your brother meaning your friend , the people that u don’t like ,your co workers and even the bi,gay,lesbian, ect.. U r not going to heaven the word is clear and simple. Am not judging just showing that there are other verses that people don’t want to touch but that r there! God Bless and hope that this problem get resolve.